Project Mainline updates all Android phones thousands of times a year - no matter who makes it or whether they support it any longer

[Wally J]

Project Mainline updates all Android phones thousands of times a year.

No matter who makes the phone or whether they support it any longer.
The carrier doesn't matter either - you just need to be on the Internet.

Read one of those links, please, and comprehend it - before responding.
<https://source.android.com/docs/core/ota/modular-system>
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222>
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201224>
<https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>
<https://venturebeat.com/business/google-details-project-mainline-updating-android-modules-via-google-play/>
<https://www.androidauthority.com/google-project-mainline-984001/>
<https://www.androidcentral.com/project-mainline>
<https://www.androidpolice.com/project-mainline-android-14/>
<https://www.droidviews.com/googles-project-mainline/>
<https://www.droidviews.com/googles-project-mainline/>
<https://www.esper.io/blog/what-is-project-mainline>
<https://www.hexnode.com/blogs/android-project-mainline-everything-you-need-to-know/>
<https://www.howtogeek.com/413714/what-is-androids-project-mainline-and-when-will-my-phone-get-it/>
<https://www.realmicentral.com/2022/02/11/project-mainline-grows-with-android-13-more-updates-go-through-google-play/>
<https://www.xda-developers.com/android-project-mainline-modules-explanation/>
<https://www.xda-developers.com/google-android-runtime-art-mainline-module-android-12/>

Every release adds more modules to these daily operating system updates.
It may become the entire operating system, at some future point in time.

[Alan]

On 2023-09-02 11:56, Wally J wrote:
> Project Mainline updates all Android phones thousands of times a year.

You mean "all Android phones with at least Android 10 on them"...

...don't you, Arlen?

[nospam]

'thousands of times a year' is plural, thus it would be at least 2000
updates.

2000 updates a year is at least 6 updates *per* *day*, every day (2190).

[VanguardLH]

Alas, phone makers customize the Android code they receive from Google
to adapt the OS to the hardware on their phone, add their own features,
and bundle their own apps all as part of branding the OS to the phone
maker. For example, I have an LG V20 smartphone. Came out in 2019. LG
dropped support back in 2019, so no more OS updates thereafter. LG then
left the smartphone market, so definitely no custom Android OS updates
for my phone. If I were to force an update to a non-customize (generic)
version of Android from Google, likely it would not properly support the
hardware for my ancient phone, or expect hardware that wasn't there.

Why, in your URL list, are there links to Apple articles? This is a
newsgroup about Android, and your Subject says "Android", yet you
include URLs pointing to Apple products (iOS).

The modularization that Google changed for Android 10 was to make it
easier for phone makers to customize their brand of Android. They don't
have to modify Google's code, and then alpha test, but can add their own
modules. So, it seems your links are valid for Android 10 (Q), and
later. That was touched by the first URL you gave, and the next Android
URL after skipping past your URLs to Apple.

There are lots of users still back on Android 9, or earlier. I'm back
on Android 8.0 since the phone maker dropped my phone, and later left
the phone market. Almost 20% of the Android market share is still using
pre-10 Android. Not everyone discards their phone just because a new OS
version shows up. The last time I discarded a phone was because the
carriers decided to drop 2G; else, I'd still have my old dumb Moto Razr
flip-phone in my pocket when doing construction, yardwork, or other
physical activity where I don't want to imperil my far more expensive
later smartphone.

Too late to update your Subject to say "all Android 10+ phones".
Mainline was announced back in 2019 along with the Sept 2019 release of
Android 10. That it was coming was announced, as I recall, about 2
years prior to give time for phone makers to prepare. You're 4 years
late. Guess it's something you just found out about.

[Wally J]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote

>> You mean "all Android phones with at least Android 10 on them"...
>>
>

> 'thousands of times a year' is plural, thus it would be at least 2000
> updates.
>
> 2000 updates a year is at least 6 updates *per* *day*, every day (2190).

Hi nospam,

We're here to LEARN so please don't respond to Alan Baker who is not.

He's here purely for his own amusement - as is Joerg Lorenz; where both
have an education no greater than ninth grade & neither can add value.

Hence, first off, please don't repeat Alan Baker's garbage as his IQ is
about 40 which means there's nothing of value possible from him.

Secondly, as far as I'm aware, the Google Play System "Project Mainline"
asynchronously updates scores of key operating system modules on _all_
Android phones with the capability built in (i.e., Android 4.4 & up).

Thirdly, the actual number of updates will change daily, but we're
contrasting badgolferman's assertion that he gets "three or four" iOS
updates in a few years with the fact that Android updates constantly -
thousands of times a year - because Android updates are asynchronous.

The reason it matters is the lack of timely updates on iOS is a fundamental
reason why iOS has more than twice the number of zero-day holes than
Android, and it's certainly a key reason why actively exploited zero-day
holes on iOS are more than ten times that as we've proven many times.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

Since you are desperate to deflect from the fact that the safety and
security of iOS is atrocious compared to Android by arguing against the
numbers - what matters is the order of magnitude.
*In the time IOS updates once - Android updates a thousand times*

Since you dispute the number, using the baseline for Android 14 of about 27
modules in Project Mainline (let's call that 25 modules for easy math), and
knowing that's only one layer in how Android updates, that Project Mainline
set of updates alone is 9,125 updates per year - if every module updates
just once a day.

That's almost ten thousand updates a year, nospam, for just one Android
layer if every module updates once a day - so I think that my qualification
of the fact that for every one update in iOS, there are a thousand updates
in Android is logically defensible (given there are many Android layers).

I realize you hate all facts about Apple products, nospam, but it's
logically defensible that for every iOS update, Android updates a thousand
times - which is why I had patiently responded to badgolferman as I did.

[nospam]

In article <ud0ntp$10it3$1...@paganini.bofh.team>, Wally J

<walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

>
> That's almost ten thousand updates a year,

that would be ~27 updates a day, or more than one per hour.

rule of holes: stop digging.

[Wally J]

VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote

> Alas, phone makers customize the Android code they receive from Google
> to adapt the OS to the hardware on their phone, add their own features,
> and bundle their own apps all as part of branding the OS to the phone
> maker.

We're all here to learn from each other, so I appreciate your corrections!
Each of us owns a different part of the ecosystem to share with the others.

You're correct that Google updates _all_ Android 10+ phones, no matter who
makes them, as long as those phones are on the Internet since those 37 key
modules are updated in the Google Play System & NOT by OEMs or carriers.
<https://www.androidpolice.com/project-mainline-android-14/>

BTW, what you said above has a _lot_ to do with Project Treble though!
<https://www.computerworld.com/article/3306443/what-is-project-treble-android-upgrade-fix-explained.html>

However, the phone models that are updated by Project Treble is limited.
<https://www.xda-developers.com/list-android-devices-project-treble-support/>

> For example, I have an LG V20 smartphone. Came out in 2019. LG
> dropped support back in 2019, so no more OS updates thereafter.

You've hit upon the fact Android has improved since that phone debuted.
It's too late to change the SUBJECT to indicate it's Android 10 & up.

Thanks for pointing that out - although what I was referring to was the
capability of modularization was first added (AFAICR) in Android 4.4.

But certainly the Project Mainline improvements were added in 2019.
"Android 10 launched with 12 supported Mainline modules, but in the
latest release, that number has ballooned to 37 updatable modules."
<https://www.androidpolice.com/project-mainline-android-14/>

> LG then
> left the smartphone market, so definitely no custom Android OS updates
> for my phone.

No "custom" updates from LG - but we're talking about Project Mainline.
If the Android version is new enough, it's being updated as we speak.

Thousands of times a year.
But, as you astutely noted, it should be Android 10 and up.

> If I were to force an update to a non-customize (generic)
> version of Android from Google, likely it would not properly support the
> hardware for my ancient phone, or expect hardware that wasn't there.
> Why, in your URL list, are there links to Apple articles? This is a
> newsgroup about Android, and your Subject says "Android", yet you
> include URLs pointing to Apple products (iOS).

This thread is an offshoot of an Apple thread where badgolferman had noted
that he gets "three or four" iOS updates in a few years and my response to
him was in the time that iOS gets three or four iOS updates, Android gets
three or four thousand updates.

That's important because it helps to understand why Android has fewer than
half the number of zero-day holes than iOS and why Android has less than a
tenth of the actively exploited zero-day holes of any other smartphone OS.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

If you don't care how Android security stacks up against the competition,
just ignore those comparisons and just realize Android is far more secure.

> The modularization that Google changed for Android 10 was to make it
> easier for phone makers to customize their brand of Android. They don't
> have to modify Google's code, and then alpha test, but can add their own
> modules. So, it seems your links are valid for Android 10 (Q), and
> later. That was touched by the first URL you gave, and the next Android
> URL after skipping past your URLs to Apple.

Thank you for pointing out it's Android 10 and up for Project Mainline.
<https://www.howtogeek.com/413714/what-is-androids-project-mainline-and-when-will-my-phone-get-it/>

Moving forward, I'll note that it's Android 10 and up, but that's not the
real point since the point is that a "modern" Android updates thousands of
times a year (which is exactly what you'd expect a modern OS to do).

> There are lots of users still back on Android 9, or earlier. I'm back
> on Android 8.0 since the phone maker dropped my phone, and later left
> the phone market. Almost 20% of the Android market share is still using
> pre-10 Android. Not everyone discards their phone just because a new OS
> version shows up. The last time I discarded a phone was because the
> carriers decided to drop 2G; else, I'd still have my old dumb Moto Razr
> flip-phone in my pocket when doing construction, yardwork, or other
> physical activity where I don't want to imperil my far more expensive
> later smartphone.

Thanks again for clarifying it was Android 10 and up, as I had forgotten
when Project Mainline started since I've been harping on this for years.

Also, as happens with big confusing organization, Project Mainline has
changed names a few times so we need to use the newer search terms.

> Too late to update your Subject to say "all Android 10+ phones".
> Mainline was announced back in 2019 along with the Sept 2019 release of
> Android 10. That it was coming was announced, as I recall, about 2
> years prior to give time for phone makers to prepare. You're 4 years
> late. Guess it's something you just found out about.

Actually I've known about Project Mainline for years but I happened to
forget it started with Android 10 since Android 4.4 had modularization.

BTW, if you think Project Mainline is a great idea, check out Treble!
<https://www.computerworld.com/article/3306443/what-is-project-treble-android-upgrade-fix-explained.html>

[Wally J]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote

>> That's almost ten thousand updates a year,
>
> that would be ~27 updates a day, or more than one per hour.

Currently there are 37 modules in just the one Project Mainline layer
(which doesn't count Project Treble or any other of the hundreds of layers
that Android updates, nospam, including the default install applications).
<https://www.androidpolice.com/project-mainline-android-14/>

... think about that ...

Just that one layer alone, of hundreds of layers, has 37 modules, which if
they each updated just once a day would be 13,505 updates in a year.

... For one Android update layer alone ...

That's not counting the hundreds of other layers Android uses to update.

I realize you _hate_ that iOS is a primitive monolith that can't update
like any other normal operating system does - which is a key reason why iOS
has far more than twice the number of zero-day exploits and over ten times
as many _actively exploited!_ zero day exploits, nospam...

But you hating that iOS is a primitive monolith doesn't change that it is.

[Alan]

On 2023-09-02 22:29, Wally J wrote:
> VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote
>
>> Alas, phone makers customize the Android code they receive from Google
>> to adapt the OS to the hardware on their phone, add their own features,
>> and bundle their own apps all as part of branding the OS to the phone
>> maker.
>
> We're all here to learn from each other

You are not here to learn from anyone, Arlen.

You've shown that over and over.